Cloning

[Marion]

I think the possibility of recovering Black from the Mysterons must be a better one than removing the Mysteron-element from Scarlet, as I do think he was taken over, and is physically the same man that went to Mars.
How you would do it, and what state the man you ended up with would be in - are two separate problems.
We assume that Scarlet is affected by the things that happen to him, so how much more is a recovered Conrad Turner likely to be affected by all that he's done while under Mysteron influence?
Poor chap.

[Kambei]

I think the possibility of recovering Black from the Mysterons must be a better one than removing the Mysteron-element from Scarlet, as I do think he was taken over, and is physically the same man that went to Mars.
How you would do it, and what state the man you ended up with would be in - are two separate problems.
We assume that Scarlet is affected by the things that happen to him, so how much more is a recovered Conrad Turner likely to be affected by all that he's done while under Mysteron influence?
Poor chap.

As variable as the new stories were in the 1990s Captain Scarlet comic, I think this subject was quite well handled in the story: 'The Labyrinth', where the World Attorney General refuses to have Scarlet near her because she simply does not trust him. He was under Mysteron control for about 6 hours. If Black could be recovered, the trust issues would probably be insurmountable.

[Marion]

Yes, there is that aspect of it too.
I quite liked that story in the comic; most of the captains got to play a part - for a change - and I thought the Attorney General's reaction was very plausible.

[Intensity Angel]

I've been thinking. What if there was a way to reverse the commands the Mysterons have over their agents? Maybe a jamming signal for something.

I've said I think that the Mysterons utilise what their agents skills and give them some slack so they can use those skills to their full potential but not enough for a 'spirit' or copy of the personality to take control or start fighting for control. What if the singal can be blocked or feedback is recieved. Maybe Scarlet's fall resulted in brain damage that resulted in a feed back against the Mysterons control and this caused more damage but resulted in the activation of a higher metabolism that picked up pace over a few hours. Maybe this was the key to scarlet's personality sinking back in.

[gojohnniegogo]

Also a very interesting point – I have often wondered about Black when he apologises to Symphony as he is about to irradiate her in ‘Manhunt’. He says that the Mysterons also have compassion, but might this also suggest that, on occasion, scraps of the original person’s humanity could sometimes ‘leak’ through the Mysteron control? After all, we are told that Scarlet’s mind lay dormant within the brain of his doppelganger, prior to the Car-Vu incident.

Loving all the theories going on here
I'm of the opinion this would be a part of Black's original personality shining through and also believe in some situations the Mysterons do leave Black to his own devices, unless he makes a mistake in which case he's either issued a new set of orders, or transported out of a dangerous situation.

[gojohnniegogo]

With Captain Black, if the Mysteronised incarnation was to be cloned I'd suspect that Black's original personality, demeanor and voice of course, would be present in any clone. As for Scarlet, one guess is as good as another all things taken into consideration!

RE: Blacks Voice - (slightly O/T) Think it was Marion that pointed this out, and saying his was the only voice that changed, had other agent's voices been also changed they'd be a giveaway - I always wondered how nobody noticed that they often went into exaggerated versions of themselves.

ie: Cpt. Blue: "Dr. Breck are you alright?"
Dr. Breck:"Fine Captain...... IMMMM FIIIINE"

and also "I'll TAKE CARE of Mr. Snow...."

[Intensity Angel]

Maybe people think the 'mysterons agents' have a cold or something.

Prehaps the deepening of the voice is a side affect of creating a duplicate of human.

[Marion]

I expect it is a story device on the part of the producers to increase the anxiety quotiant in small people. Deep voices (like Vincent Price or Valentine Dyall) have always been regarded as a bit worrying..
Or is that just me?

[RhapsodyAngel8]

I think you’re right, Marion. The deep voice does appear more sinister and, in the case of the Mysterons – ‘mysterious’ as well as threatening. I seem to remember that (from a broadcast interview with him) when Gerry Anderson first tried out the impact of his ‘new’ show – 'Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons' – on the children of his producer (?), they ran screaming from the room when the ‘Voice of the Mysterons’ was heard for the first time.

Prehaps the deepening of the voice is a side affect of creating a duplicate of human.

The Mysteron agents may speak with a more contrived and deliberate voice, but surely Black is the only one with the voice that is obviously deeper than normal – as the key Mysteron Agent he would need to appear more sinister than the others and, besides, he keeps very much in the background, so his voice being a dead giveaway wouldn’t matter. The agents that aim to deceive humans by impersonating their original counterparts still have their ‘normal’ tone of voice (cliches notwithstanding ).

[DartBrat701]

Is it possible, that when the Mysterons took over Black's mind and body, his brain patterns, thoughts, voice....etc., could be in some kind of "suspended animation" either buried very deep within his own mind.......or, somewhere outside of it?

Sounds a little far-fetched, I know! (Could make for some interesting fanfic subject material)

[Marion]

I think that's a distinct possibility, DartBrat701.
I personally would go for 'buried deep' inside his psyche, which I think would allow for the uncharacteristic 'compassion' Black shows sometimes. Uncharacteristic of the Mysterons, that is.
Otherwise it is hard to equate his actions when the Mysterons calmly choose to wipe out an entire plane load of people in 'Winged Assassin' and yet Black doesn't harm the crew of Flight 104.
Of course, after his return from Mars we never hear Black speaking with any voice other than 'the voice of the Mysterons' whatever he does - in fact he doesn't say much at all, in contrast to NCS Black, who is - as we're shown - a retrometabolised dead man.
I wonder if the fact that NCS Black is so chatty (and he's the best thing in NCS, IMHO) is because they know they can control everything he says and does, whereas monosyllabic OCS Black is still trying to fight them because he was never killed and does retain some sort of human consciousness?
If that's the case, I'd expect any clone to speak with the 'human' voice and to react in the way a pre-Mars mission Conrad Turner would. Likewise, a Scarlet clone would not inherit the alien abilities Paul Metcalfe was given.
<Lightbulb> The following ideas have just occured to me: (I am a bit slow on the uptake sometimes, so apologies if they're old hat! )
I wonder if the fact that Scarlet was given the power of retrometabolism was becasue they intended him to act as Black's mentor, ensuring he obeyed their orders at all times? Not having retrometabolised a human being before - assuming they did not do that for the remaining Zero X crew - they might not have appreciated the fact that Paul Metcalfe was not stone dead when they created his retrometabolised copy? They had been able to subdue Turner's personality and assumed Metcalfe would be as easy to control?
They realised their mistake when he broke away from them and they were unable to re-establish control. That might explain why Scarlet feels nausea in the presence of a Mysteron reconstruct? Ever hopeful, the Mysterons keep trying to regain command of him, by bouncing their 'powers' off something or someone they do control that is close by? It might explain why Scarlet's 6th sense doesn't always work - they couldn't be bothered to try on that particular occasion?
The only other clone we see retrometabolise after death is Indigo, and could that be that the Mysterons thought to try with another Spectrum captain, to work along side Black and keep him to the mark? Unfortunately for them, they left it too late as Spectrum had already developed the electron rifle.

[Intensity Angel]

Interesting ideas Marion.

I have my own thoughts and ideas on the matters.

But here is a question.

Can the Mysterons recover an agent killed by an electron rifle? And if they did or tried to do would it jolt the agent back to life and cause them to gain retrometabolism and be like Scarlet.

Electrical shocks are used to resucitate people remember so what wopuld happen. Would the mMysterons be unable to even touch a dead agent killed by electricity?

[chrisbishop]

I think this is clearly stated in all related sources that when a Mysteron agent is killed by electricity, he stays dead, so I don't see how the Mysterons could 'jolt' him back to life.

However, if the said agent is not killed (because there isn't enough voltage, for example) we do not know what exactly would happen to him. This is open to interpretation whether the said agent would continue to be under Mysteron influence or regain his freedom - if even momentarily.

I had a plot bunny somewhere about that, so I won't give all my thoughts on this matter

[hazel]

However, if the said agent is not killed (because there isn't enough voltage, for example) we do not know what exactly would happen to him. This is open to interpretation whether the said agent would continue to be under Mysteron influence or regain his freedom - if even momentarily.

This scenario is strongly implied in Kimberley Murphy Smith's story, Whose Heart is Blackest ( http://spectrum-headquarters.com/fanfic ... ackest.htm ) The Mysteron in question is shot, falls over a portable generator, and wakes up healed, retrometabolic and free from Mysteron influence (and, incidentally, off his trolley...)

[Intensity Angel]

YeahI know that story. But that doesn't help answer my question. Wouldt the Mysterons be able to recover an electrocuted agent, like they reover Black? I know this is going off topic, sorry.