Spectrum Headquarters Forum

Kinggodzillak wrote:The underwater stuff was gorgeous, too...

Yes it was, though one thing puzzled me on re-watching it. The seals we see as the Rhino goes through the ice. We're told the ice is 10 foot thick (and presumably has been there for some time) so how were these able to breathe?

I really enjoyed this one - great character development with enough action to keep it interesting. So was it the Rhino armor that perhaps weakened the Mysteron influence on Black or was it Scarlet's persuasion and presence? Or could it have been the water or even ice that shielded Black - he did come out of it right when he got to the surface.

Great animation - loved the underwater scenes. Black walking off into the storm was excellent.

I thought for a moment that Black was going to continue to be 'Conrad' only to be attacked by Blue on the surface and then revert back to Mysteron control (aka UFO's Survival episode).

KP

The seals we see as the Rhino goes through the ice. We're told the ice is 10 foot thick (and presumably has been there for some time) so how were these able to breathe?

Not having seen the episode yet (sigh... back in Canada now...), I do think, however, that I'm able to provide an answer concerning this particular problem.

There usually is a small pocket of air between ice and unfrozen water of lake or river. Survival skills classes will teach you that you can breathe in this pocket of air if you fall through a hole and get trapped under the ice (that, if you can withstand the cold! Which, admitedly, you will not do for long...) This is also what permits animals such as seals or polar bears to swim in cold waters, under the ice, from one hole ice to the other - they instinctively know they would find air there.

So, most probably in the case that interests us, the animators did their homework before including seals in this scene...

That... or this was all a huge mistake and I just provided them with a good save!

shadokp wrote:I really enjoyed this one - great character development with enough action to keep it interesting. So was it the Rhino armor that perhaps weakened the Mysteron influence on Black or was it Scarlet's persuasion and presence? Or could it have been the water or even ice that shielded Black - he did come out of it right when he got to the surface.

Well quite a bit was made of the fact the Rhino's armour shielded against microwave attack so if there was any kind of electromagnetic 'link' between Black and the Mysteron Consciousness, then that's one possibility. But I hadn't considered 'being in Scarlet's presense' as well - initially it was stated Scarlet had a form of telepathic link to Black.

But whatever, the premise was fantastic, and set up very well.

Marion wrote:2. Here they are having a manly heart-to- heart and starting to build bridges between themselves... they are calling each other 'Conrad' and (finally) 'Paul' and then Black - seemingly coming back to humanity - asks 'How's DESTINY?' Doesn't the woman have a name of her own? You would think Scarlet/Paul looking for ways to connect with what's left of Black's humanity - would use the name of the woman he loves...

I'm inclined to say that while 'Paul', 'Adam' and 'Conrad' have been used extensively through the series, Destiny's real name 'Simone' hasn't...

I don't think we've heard her name that much, have we? Simone, isn't it? The kiddies might have been confused if he just asked "How's Simone?"...although...

B: "Paul...how's Destiny?"
S: "...*Simone*'s fine, Conrad. She's fine."

...could have worked...

Kinggodzillak says:

B: "Paul...how's Destiny?"
S: "...*Simone*'s fine, Conrad. She's fine."
...could have worked...

This is my point exactly - there are various ways around it.
It is part of an underlying facet that irritates me - the male characters are frequently called by their Christian names, as are Lt 'Serena' Green and Captain 'Elaine' Ochre. However none of the Angels are and whilst I accept that they don't feature that much as a group, the obvious exception is Destiny.
Although she has been promoted to a major character - her name has never even been mentioned (as far as I know) not even when she's at Black's funeral or Scarlet's chatting her up...
I don't happen to like the officers being called by their Christian names - at least not on duty or without good reason - but it would be nice if the scripts were consistant with what they do - especially as there seemed to be a perfectly valid reason for Scarlet to use her name this time - when he was trying to reach Black's 'underlying humanity'....

The "over-use" of christian names has ruined the series for me ..
that & the poor storylines ... some nice cgi though

Shaqui wrote:Does this mean Black could be freed at some point?

According to the mini episode guide in the Gerry Anderson Episode Guide book Black appears to escape from Mysteron control in the last episode. But is it a ruse?
A snippet here: http://www.tvcentury21.com/content/view/314/31/

Hi, Im new here.

Seems Im a bit late with my thoughts on this great episode but i'll add my bit anway.

Well in this episode Captain Scarlet & Captain Black end up at the bottom of the sea in the Artic trapped in a Rhino SPV, now they are together for a while and Black begins to lose his Mysteron hold and begins to remember his doubles past.

Now the only reason I could think the Mysterons were losing this hold was because it was mentioned in the dialogue between Scarlet & Black that Microwaves couldnt penertrate the Rhino vehicle, hence my quick thought that this (microwaves) was what was keeping the hold on Black as once back to the surface this hold quickly came back to him, maybe this is the key to defeating the Mysteron plan with Black.

BTW also looking at this episode I would say Gerry is thinking of Stingray in CGI if the underwater CGI is anything to go by. I could see Stingray pull up at any moment in those scenes.

I just saw it yesterday on ABC2 down in Australia...fantastic episode! The undewater scenes were brilliant and the seals were a nice touch of realism...the first half was too long and I felt the second half was a little rushed...

Best bit:
The Rhino lockdown

Worst bit:
Scene with Destiny and Blue on Skybase

Best animation moment:
Swimming to the surface

Best character:
Captain Black- this guy's a star!

chrisbishop wrote:

The seals we see as the Rhino goes through the ice. We're told the ice is 10 foot thick (and presumably has been there for some time) so how were these able to breathe?

Not having seen the episode yet (sigh... back in Canada now...), I do think, however, that I'm able to provide an answer concerning this particular problem.

There usually is a small pocket of air between ice and unfrozen water of lake or river. Survival skills classes will teach you that you can breathe in this pocket of air if you fall through a hole and get trapped under the ice (that, if you can withstand the cold! Which, admitedly, you will not do for long...) This is also what permits animals such as seals or polar bears to swim in cold waters, under the ice, from one hole ice to the other - they instinctively know they would find air there.

So, most probably in the case that interests us, the animators did their homework before including seals in this scene...

That... or this was all a huge mistake and I just provided them with a good save!

Plus, seals have an amazing set of lungs (like all aquatic mammals) and can hold their breath for upwards of twenty minutes.

i've just seen this episode, and I have to concur with the general consensus that there should have been so much more of it! The name issue is reassuringly familiar (how many writers refer to the Mysteron as 'Black' and the human as 'Conrad'?), and the very idea that Conrad is still a part of Black is both reassuring and disturbing. I hope they decide to follow up on this if Series 3 is made.

And now we know how to free him - trap him in a Rhino/submarine with Scarlet and a HUGE air tank under ten feet of ice. Longer away from the Mysterons might just give him the chance he needs to get completely free from their control.

Overall, arguably the best-written script of the entire series. ( I know, it's hard to bear in mind this is supposed to be for children. I really don't want to make allowances !)

Everything about this was first-class, in as much as the script, voices and technology came together so well. Never thought I could fancy a CGI image ! ( Scarlet, obviously, not Black, although.....)

I can only suppose that Colonel White thought that Scarlet's tenuous bond with Black would be an advantage in letting him go alone and that he would be best placed to fight an enemy with similar advantages/disadvantages. The problem with NCS is, you seem to arrive in the middle of an episode without a clue as to what the Mysteron threat might be, unlike OCS, where it was spelled out at the beginning.

Interesting that the Mysterons' hold on Black seemed to weaken in such a confined space. Suggests there is the possibility that this could happen again ,in fan fiction, if not in actual episodes. Anyone want to pass Destiny the smelling salts ?

This is one of my favorite episodes. Series will often do this later in their run - put to enemies in close quarters and let them act it out. Smallville just aired an episode last week that used this familiar formula of putting to ex-friends now enemies into a place they were trapped in.

Best of Enemies emphasized the character development between Black and Scarlet which I think was one of the best things it did for the series. Black is a three dimensional character, more so than the original series. It added a level of potential stories for future episodes, if they had ever happened.

KP