Spectrum Headquarters Forum

Rat Trap wrote:Chiller was an extremely inventive story that outshone anything in the original.

Apart from saying that it's an inventive story, you haven't said why you think it was better than the original. Do you really think the original didn't have inventive stories?

Speaking of the series as a whole, do you think it better? If so, why? Be as detailed as you like, though not forgetting that it's accepted that the animation side of things is obviously superior.

Perhaps the reasoning could concentrate on comparable aspects, eg, storylines and charaterisation?

Rat Trap, first of all, I would like to apologise if I ruffled your feathers.

Secondly: before you post a message, it would be a good idea to re-ckecked what had been posted before. And by the time your latest message has been posted, you would have realised that I had ALREADY edited MY post, because I did realise I came down a little strong with it, BEFORE your anwser appeared. I realised I was basically saying you to 'shut up' and I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

It is not my business to tell people NOT to compare the two series, and you are entitled to your opinion, as much as me, or anyone else. The way I edited my post - and I repeated it, BEFORE you actually answered to it - was meant to express that opinion.

If you continue to read my post, you'll see that I'm prepared to present my arguments very soon, and I will respect you or anyone else who would like to challenge those arguments with your own. In fact, I prefer good, well-thought arguments over simple "It's sucks" arguments. I think I already said that, and I also think you did a pretty good job in another thread to actually explain why you foud the new series much better than the last one. And I remember having answered to that to. So you are welcomed to continue offer well-thought posts and arguments.

BUT - a thing I will ask however, is to NOT DENIGRATE others' feelings and/or preferences of the classic series over the new one. Nor the other way around. It was never my intention to do that myself, let me assure you. In my case, it may be because I had so much expectation that I feel a little put down by what I read and seen so far. My opinion might change, however, but I would need strong arguments for that.

PS: I DID hear that Chiller was the best story so far, because it has a GOOD script. I'm very glad to hear that. As it is the sixth episode in the production list, then perhaps we can expect equally good storyline for the other episodes of the series.

PPS: I don't think "Captain Scarlet" is the best series from Gerry Anderson. I think it would rather be UFO... I prefer Scarlet, though.

With regard to the scripts getting better as the show reaches its conclusion, Chris - I have to express some doubts. Looking at the order of production on Fanderson - Chiller was the 6th episode made, to be followed by 'Rat Trap' and 'Swarm' - two episodes which (in MY opinion) were not nearly as good as 'Chiller' or 'Mercury Falling'. However, we are promised a spectacular 'cliff-hanger' finale in 'Achilles Messenger' - so who knows?
I have tried to explain my feelings about the comparative aspects of the two series elsewhere, so I won't go into that again here. (See the forum thread on 'Rain of Terror' - if you haven't already) There are things in the new CGI to enjoy and, generally speaking, I do - but I have to agree with Hazel, that the scripts & storylines have not been the strongest part of the CGI series and even where they have been good - often the acting has been - at best - lacklustre.
'Chiller' is a good story - it concentrates on the effect his ghostly condition has on Scarlet and his immediate companions on Skybase. Setting up and dealing with the consequences of the Mysteron plot are dealt with efficiently at the start and the end. There is some intentional humour (at least, I found this episode amusing - with the one liners and the juxtaposition of the characters and the dilemmas they face) and some insight into the relationships between the main characters. So much so, that I feel it might have been better aired earlier in the series - as part of the 'introduction' to the characters - so as to engage the viewer and create an empathy.
(One thing I did notice though - the CGI wasn't as convincing. There were several instances of people suppposedly putting their hands on someone's shoulders - to guide or comfort them - and the hands never actually made contact! )
A million times better than the original? No, I don't think so - it is hard to compare chalk and cheese (and I know that because I've tried - see above)- but 'Chiller' is one of the best episodes of the CGI series so far - once more in MY opinion.

Link to the Rain of Terror Thread:
http://spectrum-headquarters.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=259&start=0

Hazel said:
still can't decide whether Scarlet remembers what he did as a ghost or not. I feel that this is probably down to the acting rather than the script, though.

I finally got to watch the episode again. I still think Captain Blue's expression when Destiny went off with his watch is a classic!
But the main reason I watched it was to see if I could tell if Scarlet knew what had happened whilst he was 'dead' - and I rather think he did.
Destiny says: We really thought we'd lost you; we thought you were dead.
Scarlet says: Believe me, so did I.
Well, he's unlikely to say that if he'd forgotten what happened - is he? But I agree, the speeches immediately after - particularly where he says he has no idea what the phenomenon was - don't actually do much to reinforce that impression.
A nice episode.

chrisbishop wrote:Rat Trap, first of all, I would like to apologise if I ruffled your feathers.

Touche!

chrisbishop wrote:Secondly: before you post a message, it would be a good idea to re-ckecked what had been posted before. And by the time your latest message has been posted, you would have realised that I had ALREADY edited MY post, because I did realise I came down a little strong with it, BEFORE your anwser appeared. I realised I was basically saying you to 'shut up' and I didn't mean for it to sound that way.

Chris, I read your original post and that's what I responded to. No offence intended, but I don't in all honesty have the time to keep checking and rechecking people's posts. Do you not think a better solution might be if people thought a little more carefully about what they said, before they said it?

chrisbishop wrote:If you continue to read my post, you'll see that I'm prepared to present my arguments very soon,

Great, look foward to it. I can't guarantee I'll agree with you but I'm sure it'll be a good read.

chrisbishop wrote:BUT - a thing I will ask however, is to NOT DENIGRATE others' feelings and/or preferences of the classic series over the new one. Nor the other way around.

How have I denigrated other people's feelings, Chris? By you own admission I 'did a pretty good job in another thread to actually explain why you found the new series much better than the last one.'

Come on, this is a discussion forum. I'm not going to back off making comparisons between the two series. If I think NCS is doing a better job (which it is in almost every single respect) then I'm going to say so and I'll do my best to explain why. Equally, if I think it's lacking in certain areas compared to the original then I won't be shy about saying that either..

Cerise wrote:

Rat Trap wrote:Chiller was an extremely inventive story that outshone anything in the original.

Apart from saying that it's an inventive story, you haven't said why you think it was better than the original. Do you really think the original didn't have inventive stories?

One of the biggest problems with the original is that the opening episode establishes a format with enormous potential but the series doesn't do anything particularly interesting with it. Each week the Mysterons would issue a threat and each week Spectrum would try to prevent it. And win or lose Scarlet would 'die' in almost every episode and, er, that was it. The relationships between the characters were so stiff that calling them formulaic doesn't even begin to descibe how simple they were. I think there are about a dozen good episodes but, Cerise, as far as inventiveness goes the best Barwick and co. could come up with was the development of a gun that detected/killed Mysterons. Well, big deal. I can't get excited by that. The thing about Chiller is that writer Phil Ford presumably looked at the original format, specifically at the nature of Scarlet's retrometabolism and thought 'Hey, what would happen to Scarlet if he was alive but his body was so badly damaged that it was almost beyond repair'. And away we go with a wraithlike, insubstantial Scarlet wandering around Skybase as a hidden bomb ticks down to destruction. See, I think episodes like that are great because they're exploiting the potential of a very rich format, something the original was never able to do.

chrisbishop wrote:PS: I DID hear that Chiller was the best story so far, because it has a GOOD script.

Well it's a professionally crafted piece as most of them have been. Mercury Falling and Rat Trap were also strong scripts but I think Chiller is ahead because it takes an aspect inherent in the format of the old show and does something with it. Thus, it's especially pleasing for those of us who are like the original (and that does include me, btw!)

chrisbishop wrote:PPS: I don't think "Captain Scarlet" is the best series from Gerry Anderson. I think it would rather be UFO... I prefer Scarlet, though.

Mmm, well, while I like UFO it never carried the impact of Year One of Space: 1999. That, along with Thunderbirds represent Gerry & Sylvia's best shows for me (I also think Joe 90 is desperately underrated). As for Captain Scarlet it's one of their least satisfying shows, IMO.

Do you not think a better solution might be if people thought a little more carefully about what they said, before they said it?

Point taken. I guess that sometimes we write something that might be regretful because we had been piqued by a particuar line in a post. I think both you and me had a case of that recently.

If you continue to read my post, you'll see that I'm prepared to present my arguments very soon,

Great, look foward to it. I can't guarantee I'll agree with you but I'm sure it'll be a good read.

Be careful what you wish for!

Best Episode Yet, by a long way.

Episodes like this would be better suited to a later timeslot, but then again, so would the whole series

I think this episode was originally scheduled for an earlier slot in the series. I can't quite fathom why that was changed

BTW, IMHO Scarlet seemed oblivious at the end, I don't think he was aware of what happened during his "out of body" experience.
In the same way that people cannot always recall dreams or recovered coma victims, who lose months or years without any recollection of any kind of dreams etc.

I think it's quite clever to leave it up to the audience to decide though.

I though this episode was excellent, in that it explored aspects of Retrometabolism not explored in the original CS. For example, what would happen when Scarlet was really seriously injured, and instead of Scarlet being taken off in an ambulance/Spectrum helicopter at the very end of the episode, we see him recovering and witness an amazing experience for the Captain during the recovery process.

It looks like this was inspired by accounts of 'out of body'/near death experiences during operations, and also by accounts of ghostly apparitions e.g. the column of cold air felt my Destiny which makes the experience more believeable. Extremely well done.

funny things that happened during this episode.

1. i fell down the stairs (ok so that wasn't really funny)

2.my bro is always having a go at me for watching most haunted. and he said randomly "do you think they should get derek acorah in to find why theres ghostly going on." I kicked him and hurt my foot.

good episode and more great quotes for me to use. ( what you trying to do get yourself killed?"" right idea wrong person")
retrometabilized_duck

Hi there, I realise this is a bit late in the offing, but I'm having a really boring 30 minutes waiting for AnitVirus to do it's stuff (new computer, hooray, maybe things will speed up now), so settled down to read some of the reviews. I've read with interest the 'discussion' about people's preferences regarding the original series compared to the CGI show, and thought I'd offer up my opinion!! I loved the puppets, I probably wouldn't be watching CS now if I hadn't seen it, but to me the two shows are just completely different. I admit I always used to wonder why the puppet Scarlet didn't have quite the fantastic adventures portrayed by the art-work at the end, and I was too young to realise that the puppets never actually 'walked' anywhere, but the whole creepiness of it all was so addictive! But I'm so pleased they have made the CGI show now, and I can see it from an older point of view as well as that of my kids. No it's not perfect, but for sheer entertainment I'd still give it 10/10. I love the fact they can take the characters places puppets just couldn't go (ok forget Team America!!), and I am really looking forward to the new series. I think it's brought Captain Scarlet back to the attention of people who may never have come across it otherwise - my kids have watched the originals, but they love the CGI series. It's brought Captain Scarlet up-to-date with modern tv and modern kids, and both shows stand out for themselves.

Chris

ALL;

I have finally gotten around to seeing a few more eps of NCS and will be posting about most shortly - but in reviewing this particular thread I can't help but be astonished by the fact that NO ONE at all seemed to recognize this for a New Captain Scarlet version of the movie Ghost. (Patrick Swayze anyone?) I found that the blatant similarities very much interfered with the way I enjoyed the episode (it wasn't the worst of the lot by far) and I kept on wondering exactly when Whoopi Goldberg was going to turn up.

Aside from that (and the fact that I truly dislike any kind of metaphysics tossed into my science fiction, Halloween stories excepted) I rather liked it, especially for Dr. Gold, who is turning out to be my favorite character by far, with Colonel
White in second place. Destiny, however, still annoys the crap out of me, and I much would have preferred if the writer had allowed Blue to have twigged onto and taken the lead in following the ticking watch trail....

other notes:

- NCS seems pretty fond of abandoned desert diners
- heavyset, balding gentlemen abound
- I still have a very hard time believing that genetics (enhanced or otherwise) can help much in regards to kick-starting incinerated remains
- jumping off of Skybase is a really popular recreational sport of some kind
- the nuke, when it went off, was still much to close to Skybase - my first thought was that the shockwave and the EMP between them would have knocked her from the sky almost as efficiently

have fun....

Doc Denim

NCS seems pretty fond of abandoned desert diners

Aww - we only used the diner twice - OK, three times if you count the end of Chiller where Storey gets busted by Scarlet and Blue - we used the old dude from the tractor in ep 1 more than that

Funnily enough, we nearly had two bald guys in that diner sequence at the beginning of Chiller - I'd finished the lighting and was all set to send the scenes between "Mysteron Guy A" and Xander Storey off for rendering when Mark Woollard told me "Guy A" had hair. Shame really - you can never have too many heavy-set bald guys in a New Captain Scarlet episode