A tragedy in Super Marionation
Moderator: Spectrum Strike Force
You're spot on about the press. The press gives the public what they want and when the public wants more, they get more of the same. After several years of reading the Daily Mail (it was a family thing), I switched to the Independent. Straight away I noticed that the world had changed from one where there was an Arabic terrorist on one end of the street and a black mugger at the other to one where we were about to be engulfed by tidal waves caused by global warming. On a more serious note, I guess I've traded home gossip for a more balanced news from the world, although I accept that there is still an amount of spin attached.
Today's film and television fiction may reflect the world as it is today up to a point but as long as people accept that it IS fiction, then things not get out of hand.
There is a re-release of the film The Warriors about to be er, released. For those not in the know, the film, set in the 70s, follows a street gang trying to get back to its home turf after being framed for a shooting. At the time, there was critics and commentators that said that the film may promote street gang warfare, because of its violent scenes. In fact, New York was already in the hands of the street gangs (who did actually interfere with the filming) perhaps because the government were more concerned with overseas problems in Iran at the time. Nowadays, the film is simply seen as a serious social commentary of the times, despite the very cartoonish gangs depicted.
Anyway...
Life isn't like Inspector Morse or Eastenders, otherwise no-one would ever visit Oxford in case they got murdered, or venture into the East End without expecting a good old cockernee kneesup at the rubadub before the landlady has a slanging match with one of the punters over a knicker mixup at the launderette.
My view is that a tiny minority of the population have trouble telling fact from fiction and that these people would be prone to violence anyway. The vast majority of people are sane and balanced individuals that get on with their lives in a proper manner.
If we worried too much about it, we'd never get out of bed.
I hope I've made as much sense as you did!
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steviep
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Essentially the same point was made in "1984" when Winston expressed his concern that potential traitors might swallow the obvious lies being perpetrated by Goldstein (the irony there being that it was actually the ruling party itself who was circulating them in the first place). The same dilemma arises with obscenity being defined legally as "having the tendency to deprave and corrupt" - in which case the only test you can apply when trying to decide whether something is obscene or not is whether it depraves and corrupts you - because on what grounds do you consider yourself qualified to judge whether it depraves and corrupts anybody else?
Getting back to the main thread for a moment, I have a sneaking suspicion that "Team America" might possibly have been refused a certificate in the UK had it been released even ten years ago. At the very least, I suspect it would have been the subject of a lot of political squabbling, with several conservative local councils banning it from their cinemas. I almost wish that something of the kind had happened, because it would have been hilarious to witness. I can just see it now: "PUPPET SHOW BANNED!" We'd have been the laughing stock of the western world.
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Clya Brown
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Doc Brown wrote:Getting back to the main thread for a moment, I have a sneaking suspicion that "Team America" might possibly have been refused a certificate in the UK had it been released even ten years ago. At the very least, I suspect it would have been the subject of a lot of political squabbling, with several conservative local councils banning it from their cinemas. I almost wish that something of the kind had happened, because it would have been hilarious to witness. I can just see it now: "PUPPET SHOW BANNED!" We'd have been the laughing stock of the western world.
I think you're right. I certainly think it would have been censored in several places (as would South Park, of course). That's evolution for you!
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steviep
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I think the puppetry - especailly the faces - was astonishing. I'm reminded of seeing the Disney film 'Beauty and the Beast', in that the subtlety of the animation had advanced so much after Disney had seemed to languish in the 1980s. The emotion on the faces was superb, and I don't think the puppet genre can go much further than this. Ironically, I think it also shows that the puppet genre as far as Gerry Anderson might like to have taken it is dead. Compared to 'New Captain Scarlet', the limitations are shown up big time - and this on a film budget. I never thought I'd say it, but as much as I love all the original puppet series, I think Hypermarionation is the way forward.
I wonder where CGI productions will be in forty years time...
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shaqui
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Poetry Angel wrote:I respect that is how you feel. And for you that may be true. You are (I assume) an adult, and educated. To make that same assumption for a child though, that what they see wont effect them, we need only to look at the difference in the way children relate socially in war torn countries, as opposed to children in countries like Sweden, or Canada. There are definate differences, because they dont necessarily understand the difference between what is "real" on a TV show and what is real in their lives. Mind you Im not saying this is fact, Im speculating, after all thats what this forum is isnt it? A place to talk it over and search for truths?
Poetry Angel
Thank you, Poetry. I am indeed adult and educated. However, I should point out that I was, albeit some time ago, a child. And tv, books and music weren't all that different then. Horrors were still going on in the world and through it all I could tell the difference between fact and fiction, right and wrong. I don't think there is anything particularly special about me in this. I would therefore have to conclude that the media representation of minority groups for whom fact and fiction is a blurred issue has become blown out of all proportion. After all, these days, with the advent of the so-called 'reality TV' there are many depictions of what is supposedly real life, but have no bearing on our lives or those of our friends and family. It's sensationalist nonsense and should be recognised as such. If the children are in any doubt, then it is the parents responsibility to explain, not for TV companies to only paint rosy pictures of a world we know does not exist. I do not accept the arguement that the world would be rosy without such programs as it certainly wasn't before the invention of cinema and there is no reason to assume that we would enjoy a 'Stepford-Style' utopia otherwise.
I applaud your concern, and, I too, wish the situation were otherwise, but I do feel that you may be over-simplifying things in finding a scapegoat.
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Cerise
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Poetry Angel
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Poetry Angel
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Clya Brown
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Poetry Angel
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Poetry Angel
I can remember watching Mick Jagger railing against the Establishment years ago after they denounced him for being a strutting raunchy long-haired juvenile delinquent. Well, Sir Mick Jagger is still rocking on stage - the only difference is that now his generation is the Establishment. He hasn't changed much - but the old Establishment that used to get up his nose has died long since. Plus ça change.
I'm very conscious that we're hopelessly off-topic here, and fascinating though it is to widen the whole thing to cover the whole spectrum of philosophy and ethics, I feel we ought to limit the discussion to the point, which started off as the uses to which supermarionation gets put - otherwise we're going to get told off by our Establishment. Fair dos, as the expression goes?
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Clya Brown
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